SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
President Trump says he is close to a deal with Iran over their nuclear program. The talks picked back up in April, nearly seven years after Trump unilaterally pulled out of the previous agreement, which had been negotiated by President Obama. But Trump's confidence of a deal comes at an interesting time. Yesterday, the United Nations nuclear watchdog put out a report saying that Iran has dramatically increased its uranium stockpile since February. Seyed Hossein Mousavian was part of Iran's nuclear negotiation team in the early 2000s. He's now a Middle East security and nuclear policy specialist at Princeton University. Thanks for joining us.
SEYED HOSSEIN MOUSAVIAN: Thank you.
DETROW: Let's start here - what do you think the state of these talks are, and why do you think this moment is so important?
MOUSAVIAN: First of all, to my understanding, Scott, I think they have three major issues to negotiate and to agree. The first and the most important is about verification measures. The U.S. expect Iran to accept the highest level of transparency and verification measures and cooperate with the International Atomic Energy Agency in order to remove the technical ambiguities.
The second major issue is about the stockpile of enrich - high-level enriched uranium at the level of 60%. The IAEA report yesterday says Iran has 400 kilogram of 60% enriched uranium, which is enough for making 10 nuclear bomb. And this is, I think, a very, very important and urgent issue for the U.S. to address. The third major issue, Scott, I think, is about the enrichment. To my understanding, the two parties - they may have agreed on the No. 1 and No. 2, and they have a problem on No. 3 because the U.S. is asking Iran to forego enrichment, to dismantle the enrichment industry. And Iran says, it is my red line.
DETROW: I'm curious what you make of the U.S.'s role in all of this and how the U.S. is approaching these negotiations because, on one hand, you've seen with tariffs, President Trump change his mind every other day, be incredibly volatile and not really give a clear long-term goal. And then, on the other hand, these nuclear talks have been progressing for several months now in kind of what seems from the outside like a low-key, forward-moving way. How do you think the U.S. is approaching this? What sticks out to you?
MOUSAVIAN: The problem, Scott, Iranians - they have with the U.S. is that they really cannot trust the U.S., in case a deal is agreed, the U.S. would not cheat. That's why, even now, Iranians, they have the same problem because, to my understanding - I heard from some sources which I can trust. They told me in the first and the second and even the third round of nuclear talks between Steve Witkoff and Abbas Araghchi, they agreed on the principles orally, and it was all about verification measures.
And suddenly, I mean, we read in the news that Prime Minister Netanyahu called President Trump, and the U.S. changed its position from verification to zero enrichment. And now, Iranians, they say, look, we have had two, three rounds of negotiations in Oman and Rome, and we agreed on the principles. Suddenly, the U.S. changed its position. And even if there is an agreement, how we can trust the U.S. would be committed to its word, to signature, to agreement?
DETROW: Given all of that, what do you think the U.S.'s motivation has been to try and seriously craft a new deal, given how many times, you know, many of the key members of this administration walked away from previous ones. Is it just the fact that Iran has been so cornered over the past few years?
MOUSAVIAN: See, from one side, the reality is that Iran has been damaged - trillions of dollars on economic damages because of the sanctions. On the regional issues, there are some setback. No one can deny this, Scott. I mean, but from the other side, Iran has increased the level and the capacity of enrichment. Now Iran is a nuclear threshold state, and Iran has just two weeks to break out. And Iran has material to make 10 nuclear bombs.
And I think now President Trump understands that with sanctions he cannot bring regime change. And the sanction regime change is not a good policy, and the U.S. has not achieved its main objective. Therefore, it's better to go with international rules and regulations, IAEA NPT, to make a very, very transparent deal to make sure that Iran would have - never have nuclear bomb, and then open the relation for big economic cooperations, which I think this is the best policy.
DETROW: That is Seyed Hossein Mousavian, former Iran nuclear negotiator. Thank you so much for helping us understand this moment.
MOUSAVIAN: Thank you, Scott. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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