AILSA CHANG, HOST:
The Department of Commerce is working on rules to keep Chinese-made cars from spying on Americans. If finalized, they would ban certain Chinese software and hardware in new vehicles. NPR correspondent Camila Domonoske, who follows the car industry, joins us now. Hey, Camila.
CAMILA DOMONOSKE, BYLINE: Hi, Ailsa.
CHANG: OK, I just have to ask. If the Commerce Department is taking this up now, does that mean cars are truly spying on Americans?
DOMONOSKE: Right now, probably not spying on you for China. There are very few Chinese-made cars in the states. And an automakers trade group says of cars that are made by other companies, there's very little of this Chinese technology incorporated in them.
CHANG: OK.
DOMONOSKE: But overall, a lot of new cars do certainly have the ability to be a very effective spying tool. They're packed with computer chips. They have cameras inside and out, tons of sensors, microphones. They track your location. Crucially, they can connect to the internet and...
CHANG: Yeah.
DOMONOSKE: ...Transmit information. Automakers have a ton of data. We know, here in the states, some companies have been caught sharing driving data with insurance companies without permission or passing around photos of the inside of your car to employees. Cars can be remotely disabled or have their steering hacked. These are all known vulnerabilities. And the risk that is motivating these rules is - what could a hostile nation do if they had a bunch of cars on American roads they controlled and could tap into all of those tools?
CHANG: OK, so what would this new rule do exactly?
DOMONOSKE: Yeah. It's proposed - not final yet. Comments from the public are being accepted. It would block vehicles with certain types of hardware and software from China. That would essentially ban Chinese-made vehicles outright. It would also mean other companies couldn't use Chinese suppliers for these systems and all of that in the name of protecting U.S. national security.
And if this sounds a lot like the debate over TikTok - the idea that this tool could be exploited - it is. This is kind of like trying to ban TikTok back before everybody downloaded it on their phones because, again, right now these vehicles are barely in the U.S. Secretary of Commerce Gina Raimondo put it like this to reporters this weekend.
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GINA RAIMONDO: We're not going to wait until our roads are filled with cars and the risk is extremely significant before we act.
DOMONOSKE: The idea is to get out in front of it. And that's why this rule actually also includes Russia, which is really not a player in these supply chains at all. I mean, it's kind of like telling me that I can't compete in the Olympics...
CHANG: (Laughter).
DOMONOSKE: ...Not a possibility. But the idea is it's preemptive.
CHANG: Right.
DOMONOSKE: They want to do it before the risk is actually there.
CHANG: OK, well, you say a lot of cars right now do not have these Chinese parts. So what does all of this mean for the U.S. auto industry?
DOMONOSKE: Yeah. Some companies might have to figure out how to avoid them. But overall, it's largely a boost because the U.S. auto industry is very worried about competition from Chinese vehicles, particularly electric vehicles. You know, separate from this national security action, we have seen a tariff on Chinese EVs hiked to 100%. And we're also seeing this same administration giving a lot of direct support to the U.S. auto industry. In fact, just this morning, the White House announced a new billion-dollar investment fund using private capital and government loans for auto suppliers. So there is this effort underway to boost U.S. manufacturing, which is also substantially about competing with China's heavily subsidized auto industry.
CHANG: I mean, how serious is the threat of Chinese competition?
DOMONOSKE: It's serious. The U.S. has done an effective job keeping Chinese cars out of the country so far. They are selling very well in Europe. These cars aren't just cheap, but the technology is impressive - the same technology that these rules are focused on. You know, some people in the auto industry are concerned that putting up too many roadblocks could ultimately make the U.S. auto industry less competitive globally. But that's why you're seeing this pairing of both subsidies and barriers.
CHANG: That is NPR's Camila Domonoske. Thank you so much, Camila.
DOMONOSKE: Thanks, Ailsa.
(SOUNDBITE OF DEBBIE SONG, "COUSINS CAR FT. BERWYN") Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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